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Saturday, April 16, 2005

Whacked Theory of Communism

This concept of "Communism has failed because it's never been implemented correctly" is really starting to piss me off. When arguing with commies, this is what it comes down to. I point to the Soviet Union and they say, well of course that was awful, Stalin stuffed up what Lenin started. And really, it wasn't a real communistic system because that really needs NO STATE in order to work.


Let's see if I can articulate this correctly. Communists belive in no state to get to some sort of idylic utopia where everyone just works together to create what everyone needs, so that noone has to work really hard. To get to this level, everyone needs to work together, otherwise, well, it just wouldn't work. So, the true believers who are really, really hanging out for this great paradise decide to short curcuit the system and just force everyone to work together and before you know it, you get .... Stalinism.

All for one and one for all without regard to individuality. That is the prime problem. And they just can't see it. They can't see that this whole concept of everyone working together is fatally flawed.

Have I missed something?

Posted by Lucia Maria | 4/16/2005 09:34:00 pm


Blogger ZenTiger said...

Now there's a brave post.

Calling all moonbats....

4/16/2005 09:43:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Lenin was as bad as Stalin, surely. He was the one who knocked off all his competitors, and rebuilt the Chekists (or whatever he called them - the NKVD?). If only the West had invested more resources in the White Russians when they had the chance.

4/16/2005 09:48:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

Al, that what the whacked ones have said... but a "Stalin" doesn't just happen, so it really didn't make sense to me. And then I found this

The Unknown Lenin : From the Secret Archive
The criminal nature of the Soviet Union can no longer be explained away as a corruption by Stalin of the pure and noble ideology of Lenin. The documents provided here clearly demonstrate Lenins criminality and his role in building the terror state that was the USSR.

4/16/2005 10:04:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

No, I meant Lenin was the one who killed off all his political competitors (socialist or otherwise), reconstituted the chekists as the NKVD (I think that was the original name, later KGB), and basically did far worse things to the Russian population than the Czar's ever did. Weren't there massive famines in the 1920's? Didn't the gulags start long before Stalin?

Ultimately communist people are selfish violent arrogant types who think their vision for the planet is more important than freedom for everyone else.

4/16/2005 10:09:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

I really don't know, I've never been particularly interested in the details before. I know that Stalin killed off all his rivals. If Lenin did or not, I really don't know.

4/16/2005 10:30:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

Oh yeah, NKVD was the precursor to the KGB, I do know that. The Gulags, I think, Stalin put in place. Stalin was around in the 1920s, he almost got court-martialed when the Soviet Union lost the Soviet-Polish war of 1919-20.

4/16/2005 10:36:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Lenin and his Bolsheviks did in Trotsky and his group (both groups were Marxist).

Stalin directly followed Lenin in 1924. I'd need to read more on how many of the USSR's problems were caused by Lenin's policies. Haven't read about this sort of thing since before 9/11.

4/16/2005 10:38:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

Seems like the pro-communists know varing amounts then. They seem to say, yeah, well Stalin was bad, we know he was bad, but Stalin stuffed up what Lenin was trying to achieve. Which is weird, why do you know Lenin was bad and they do not? And the link I posted above seems to indicate that this is a mass-delusion about Lenin.

What about Trotsky, what was he like? I've also seen people online calling themselves Trotsky-ists.

4/16/2005 11:04:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

Ok, I can answer my own question.

Leon Trotsky (1879 - 1940)

When Lenin fell ill and subsequently died, Trotsky was easily outmanoeuvred by Stalin. In 1927, he was thrown out of the party, and internal, then foreign, exile followed.

Trotsky ended up in Mexico, from where he continued to criticise Stalin. The Soviet dictator caught up with him in 1940, when a Spanish communist, Ramon Mercader, having infiltrated Trotsky's household, stabbed him with an ice axe. Mortally wounded, he lingered for a day but died in hospital. His political legacy was kept alive for decades, mainly in the corridors of Western European universities.

And I've found a number of devoted Trotsky sites... A-Mazing!

4/16/2005 11:29:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

I'd always gotten the impression Trotsky was a peaceful type. Didn't realised he died so late into the game!

4/16/2005 11:37:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Apparently the NKVD didn't develop into the KGB at all, different organisations. The KGB came from the NKGB, and the NKVD became the MGB.

NK was a standard prefix, meaning 'Peoples Commissariat'. VD means internal affairs, and the NKVD was originally some sort of Ministry of Internal Affairs, but also including the Red Guard.


And Trotsky lead the Red Guard, so guess he wasn't the peaceful type after all. Should have known that even that storyline would be a historical lie.

Here is Trotsky's 1939 Encyclopedia Britannica entry for Lenin:
Obviously distorted to remove unpleasant truths, but interesting nethertheless.

4/16/2005 11:51:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Lenin was the son of a doctor and a teacher - how appropriate. Another upper middle class boy who thought he knew it all.

I wonder if he saw the irony of his origins when he banned small businesses and removed private property soon after taking power.

4/16/2005 11:54:00 pm  
Blogger Lucia Maria said...

I wonder why I thought the NKVD became the KGB ... not sure? Maybe it was something I assumed after reading so much about them.

This Lenin/Trotsky thing really seems to be the continuing root of communism today, so it seems like it's worth pursuing just to understanding the enemy. I think they can be turned ... bahahaha!

4/17/2005 12:10:00 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The claim that communism fails due to imperfect implementation prompts a simple question. Why doesn't capitalism suffer from the same defect? After all, government regulation (and control of the money supply), is not part of the free-market agenda. Yet, under these imperfect conditions, capitalism not only survives - it thrives. The truth is: harnessing the self-interest of individuals does more for the common good than coerced altruism - anytime, anywhere.

4/18/2005 05:32:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

And lets not forget they distorted the entire system of trade to the point where no material good or service was valued appropriately relative to everything else.

4/18/2005 05:43:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Full credit to Anonymous for saying: "The truth is: harnessing the self-interest of individuals does more for the common good than coerced altruism - anytime, anywhere."

Excellent point.

Saying that, I think there are areas where unfettered Capitalism has not been harnessed (Hedge Funds?).

The danger is rather than tuning a capitalistic system is that in the event of a major crash, people may incorrectly assume the alternative is some variation of communism.

4/18/2005 05:52:00 pm  

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