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Tuesday, November 01, 2005

Fact Checking? Don't Be Silly - We're Lefties

Russell Brown has lumped phil u's blog 'Whoar' in with his description of 'sundry right wing bloggers.'

Rob O'Neill at NZBC notes sundry right-wing bloggers going off half-cocked on local connections to the oil-for-food scandal. And then apologising.

Now, in any reasonable man's opinion that's defamation and I understand phil's QC has advised him to sue both O'Neill and Russell Brown who are spreading this scurrilous misinformation and thereby perpetuated the slur and inuendo upon phil's good character in Greenie circles. He's been damaged irreparabley. Scarred for life, even.

Phil will expect no less an apology than these fellows piously demand from Sir Humphrey's Adolf who did indeed check his sources before going into print.

Posted by Adolf Fiinkensein | 11/01/2005 03:28:00 PM


Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

Okay Adolf, you big old fact checker you, show me where I call Phil a right-winger. Go on.

Did you really check the Volcker Report Adolf? If you had you wouldn't have screwed up.

11/01/2005 04:14:00 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

RB is a typical UN groupie attempting to cloud the central issue. He's incapable of ditching his long held belief that the UN represents all that is good in the world - despite any/all the evidence that they're just a bunch of leftist scumbags. As long as they're leftist (or Islamic terrorists)- he's prepared to forgive anything...

11/01/2005 04:29:00 PM  
Blogger JamesP said...

Good one Russell. It must be really easy to avoid making mistakes when your analysis of any topic is always a day (or more) old and limited to a sentence or two. [insert obligatory comment about lack of comments here]

11/01/2005 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger RightWingDeathBeast said...

Adolf forgot the golden rule of blogging: "Never trust a journalist."

Our error is corrected Mr. O'Neill. Meanwhile, your post on NZBC claiming that banning smoking on private property is classical liberalism (!) remains unamended. I don't remember ever reading a more rediculous postulation. "First remove the log from your own eye" as the good people of the Maxim Institute would say.

11/01/2005 04:56:00 PM  
Blogger darren said...

Rob is right with his point.
But Russell has blundered big time.
Sue him Phil, sue him.
The distress must be terrible.
Russell was obviously too eager klicking the boot into Alan Duff and Bush's new appointment to get his facts right.
And, funny how he is soooo behind the times.

11/01/2005 05:00:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Rob O'Niell, it must be true. Russell said it! Oh BTW Rob, I don't believe everything Sagey says but one usually can have confidence in The Economist. I see the story made it into the NBR. Probably worth about $30k in free PR for Taurus Ltd.

11/01/2005 05:21:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

Corrected! Corrected! I "piously" demand an apology!

Actually a lot of things are banned on private property, Death Beast Man, sorry Person. Like murder, manufacturing illegal drugs, watching kiddie porn.

Individual rights only extend as far as the point where they interfere with someone else's individual rights, whether on private property or not.

Classical liberals were a bunch of killjoys, the PC crowd of their time.

11/01/2005 05:24:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

That's "Taurus Group Ltd", Adolf.

Yes, saw NBR thing.

"Sagey". Could Adolf be Australian?

Makybe Diva makes it three!

11/01/2005 05:27:00 PM  
Blogger Murray said...

Thats harsh.

Someone once mistook for my brother buts thats really harsh.

11/01/2005 05:43:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

You're right, Murray. A low blow. I apologise unreservedly.

11/01/2005 05:59:00 PM  
Blogger Psycho Milt said...

Given the context of the story, I can only admire the chutzpah of your headline! No, I'm not taking the piss...

11/01/2005 06:06:00 PM  
Blogger darren said...

Adolf made a great point.
Nobody had heard of Christchurch-based Taurus until yesterday.
It would be worth following up later on to see if the publicity generates any extra business.
Now, there's a job for the Chch Press.

11/01/2005 06:07:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

I was calling Phil Sage "Sagey" about 8 months ago - and I'm not Australian.

Has Brown apologised yet for incorrectly accusing me of censoring comments? Of course not - because he doesn't believe in correcting such errors.

And I'm a little puzzled by Rob's attitude, though I realise he's an MSM journo and apologies for them are hard to make. Is it the truth that matters to Rob, or is appearing infallible more important? Is the attitude at his place of employment that its better to avoid admitting a factual error?

Just wondering Rob.

Hows Karl Roves indictment coming along?

11/01/2005 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Here's one for the journos out there:

11/01/2005 06:25:00 PM  
Blogger RightWingDeathBeast said...

"Actually a lot of things are banned on private property, Death Beast Man, sorry Person. Like murder, manufacturing illegal drugs, watching kiddie porn."

They are called "crimes". Smoking is not a crime.

11/01/2005 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

Rove's indictment? Still hanging out there AL. Unresolved.

But if you read my post, like every other post and story on the subject, I never said he was going to be indicted.

You got a problem with Russell, talk to him.

What do you want me to apologise for AL? Not calling Phil right wing? Not accusing an innocent company of supporting Saddam? Not publishing that company's staff address book on my web site?

Hey, I apologise for all of that. But mostly I apologise for suggesting Adolf might be Australian.

11/01/2005 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

PM thank you. The strategy is always to kick 'em in the arse before they kick yours. He who gets in the first kick ususally kicks hardest.

Darren I experienced this very thing some years ago when a well known political party pinched their current logo. I issued a press release and we got about $50k worth of publicity. Front page of every metropolitan daily and lead item on TV1 News and Radio Left Wing. Even had that Bradford chap on the phone wanting to know if it was a publicity stunt. I remember telling him it couldn't be as we didn't ask the well known political party to steal our logo. The most difficult part was fending off agreesive reporters who were desperate for me to say we are going to sue. That was twenty yuears ago and it seems the media's appetite for National bashing has not diminished.

11/01/2005 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

rob o'neill The Cook and her offspring are. What's worse, they're all female (the offspring, that is)

11/01/2005 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

Your a lucky man, Adolf. I've got the offspring but not the cook.

Second thoughts, I'm a lucky man too.

11/01/2005 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

The paragraph on Brown was directed towards Brown. That's why it contained his name and not yours.

While we're on the broad subject of magnifying the petty and ignoring the substance, can you spot the difference:

(1) A senior Bush staff member lies before a Grand Jury investigating the supposed leak of the identity of a CIA employee: charged and forced to resign. May face jail time and a large fine. Various rightwing commentors are critical of his behaviour after the indictment is announced. The US national media dedicates front pages and the opinion columns to every single development. Leftwing commentors use it as evidence of some big conspiracy within the Bush Administration, despite a lack of documentary evidence.

(2) The highest elected official in New Zealand intentionally lies to the media and the public about the contents of an official and confidential Government report to pressure the Police Commissioner into resigning. Nationwide media ignore newly released documents proving all of this. The majority of the New Zealand public remain unaware. Knowledgeable rightwing commentors are highly critical and demand justice. Leftwing commentors consider these rightwingers crazed.

11/01/2005 07:21:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

No, AL, the paragraph was not aimed at Brown. You asked a question about Brown. It's either aimed at me, or its rhetorical or it's some kind of Shakespearean soliloquay:

Tis a dark and stormy night. A man beside a freshly dug grave seizes a handful of soil and squeezes it in anger. Bits of dirt slide out between his fingers.

Man: Has Brown apologised yet for incorrectly accusing me of censoring comments? Of course not -because he doesn't believe in correcting such errors.

Man realises he's speaking to himself and looks around anxiously.

Yup, I can spot the difference. One (allegedly) lies to a grand jury the other (allegedly) lies to the public.

Sadly the public expects politicians to lie to them and the media assumes they are lying all the time, but grand jury's don't.

Why they didn't run with it I don't know.

11/01/2005 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger darren said...

Thanks AL for the succint summary of the Plamegate business.
Thanks to the hype and the bollocks over it, I had forgotten the finer points of the saga.
I just 'switched' off over the issue because the over excitement of the commentators and I just cannot be bothered following the story to such a large extent.
The devil is always in the detail.
Doonegate might have this problem too.
All the reports and who said what about who.
But one issue was clear, the over riding issue that the media was informed about.
The issue of the PM lying and abusing her position to bump off her police commissioner.
The media should have paid attention to this one, especially after the honesty of Don Brash became such an issue in Bretherengate.
But the media ignored Clarkes Doonegate lies and it was left to Investigate magazine to report about Doonegate in its November issue.
Alas this was after the election, but it provided Investigate with another angle- a great media cover up that could have swung the election.
I am surprised other media haven't picked up the cover up angle too. Perhaps they are culpable as well.
Though I suppose its not too late for them.

11/01/2005 07:54:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Rob, you are a good example of the modern reactionary left missing the larger issues.

If our justice system allows our Prime Minister to remain unpunished for distorting and misrepresenting the contents of two confidential Police reports in a blatant attempt at destroying the Police Commissioner and in contravention of Cabinet guidelines (not to mention natural justice), then there is something very wrong with our country.

Clearly there can be no Police force independent of political interference when such matters go unpunished.

Clearly our media could have shone light on this issue before the recent election and allowed the people of New Zealand the chance to decide for themselves what should be done. But they chose not to. Why not Rob? Because I think they are largely staffed by people like yourself: unable to understand broader principles of justice and good governance are at stake because they identify with one or more of the present controlling political parties.

Do you understand at an intellectual level why it was wrong for the New Zealand media not to cover the later Doone documents?

11/01/2005 08:44:00 PM  
Blogger sagenz said...

as the 2nd stage in this debacle i insist on a few comments.
all my mates call me sagey. its just natural.

I cant believe that adolf doesnt believe everything that I say!!!

Can we believe the Economist.No. Can we believe NBR is right? Can any of you believe any of your sources? ( apart from sir humphrey's)

George Galloway lied so why wouldnt others? Can we believe anything? apart from our own pomposity, popularity & competence?

I took down some questions about taurus but ron oneill keeps quoting them. does that make him the one committing the libel?

sue phil u sue.

rob, if you think that bloggers need to fact check the likes of the economist, you miss the point. We have that wild responsibility to be irresponsible. Especially given the example set by our leaders. Rather than apologising I should have doubled up and really made some stuff up.

11/02/2005 08:32:00 AM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

You are getting philosophical Sagey, if I can call you that. blogging is different from the MSM and it should be more out there and opinionated, but when a blog spend half its time checking and commenting on the accuracy of others, you have to take it on the chin when the attention is returned.

Politicians do lie and they should be called on it. I don't know why your story wasn't picked up, AL, but I remember someone saying they'd had contact from Fran O'Sullivan at the NZHerald. Now I don't believe she is a particular friend of the Labour government, certainly not a member of the "reactionary left" as you label me. If you want to know why it wasn't picked up she'd be a good one to ask.

If Doone isn't taking his case any further (I'm not sure on this point) it significantly weakens it as a story. If the injured party doesn't stand up for himself ...

I also suspect that if the government involved was a centre-right government you would be poo pooing anyone who tried to make an issue out of this.

For instance, Adolf refers to John Howard as "Australia's greatest prime minister of the twenty-first century", yet he lied when he promised not to introduce GST and his government covered up the fact that "children overboard" was a complete fabrication - until after the election.

Seems lying ain't such a big deal when it comes from one of yours.

11/02/2005 12:42:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Rob you missed the point. Little johnny is the ONLY Australian PM of the 21st century. He didn't lie when he promised not to introduce GST. He broke a promise. WHile not a good look, that's not lying. Clark lied, yes barefaced no holds barred lied about Doone. Children overboard a fabrication? Not according to the official reports it wasn't. Mis- communication maybe but certainly not a fabrication. You are listing to port which is 100% to the left.

11/02/2005 02:01:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

Ahh! Like a mate of mine who wanted to write his thesis on polish popes of the 19th century...

Get it!

The government knew there were no children thrown overboard well before the election and did not reveal that until afterwards.

I am left of you guys, I admit. But so is just about everyone else.

11/02/2005 02:38:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

What a heinous terrible bastard of a thing to do. Now lets see about things that got tucked away until after the election. Taito Field, interest rate increases, uni fee increases, kyoto 'adjustments,' OIA figures on student loan costings, Ministry of Ed officials told to shut up til after the election. You picked the wrong button to push there, lefty Rob.

11/02/2005 07:53:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Rob, have you noticed your comments sometimes don't appear on our "Recent Comments" list? I've been wondering why Adolf was talking with himself...

Something wrong with your Blogger account maybe?

11/02/2005 07:55:00 PM  
Blogger Rob O'Neill said...

AL, could well be. My profile is actually the blog identity and haven't worked out how to work it as a team with me as just another member.

Absolutely on that stuff tucked away Adolf. What is odd is the similarities between what you guys complain about over there and what's going on over here under a centre right govt.

For instance, over here a coup;le of weeks ago the ombudsmen issued a scathing report on the government overruling freedom of information requests. A week or so later same thing in NZ.

I think we all knew about Field and Kyoto adjustments before the election, though.


Incidentally when you search on Taito field in google your site comes up second.

11/02/2005 08:18:00 PM  

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