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Monday, October 10, 2005

Cannabis and Cancer

I had to laugh when I saw this article in today's Dominion Post.

Apparently smoking three joints is the same as smoking twenty or more ciggarettes. Weed heads constantly tell us just how much better weed is than than the typical smokes, and what do you know, but it looks like weed causes lung cancer too. Not only that, but the highest weed use is in Maori who also seem to have the highest lung cancer rates!

There ya go.
ยท Linked Article

Posted by Lucia Maria | 10/10/2005 05:13:00 PM

43 Comments:

Blogger Chefen said...

The amazing thing is that anyone can seriously think that regularly inhaling smoke from anything is a good idea.

10/10/2005 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

I agree. That's always been my position. I don't smoke anything. Or take drugs, not even head ache pills.

I suppose if I was in serious pain I would, but I don't consider a headache serious pain.

I was also very surprised to see that weed use is epidemic amoungst Maori. Not something I would have guessed.

10/10/2005 06:11:00 PM  
Blogger Psycho Milt said...

Dope fiends aren't under the impression that inhaling marijuana smoke is healthy, the "less bad for you than tobacco" idea is predicated solely on the fact that you don't smoke as much marijuana as tobacco. And really, how many people are there who smoke 3 joints a day? Surely they don't have like, jobs to go to or anything?

It is a bullshit concept though, because I've never met a dope fiend who didn't end up smoking tobacco as well as dope. Real healthy!

10/10/2005 06:14:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

PM, you're right of course. They probably knock back a fair bit of grog as well. Seriously though, this is very bad news for those who are genuinely stiving to improve the life expectancy of Maori people. Before anyone will get a chance to do anything constructive we'll have to endure ten years of argument among academics as to the legitimacy or political correctness of telling Maori people they have found another way to kill themselves.

10/10/2005 07:08:00 PM  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Interesting point PM. Is there a correlation between heavy dope smokers and unemployed people? I knew a teacher that smoked 1-2 joints daily, partly, he said, for back pain, and partly because he just liked it.

I think several years later he got done for possession and cultivation, and lost his job which seemed excessive. However, I don't know the circumstances behind the discovery. It was quite possible his students were more attuned to the tell-tale signs of dope smoking than he realised. Or he failed one of them.

10/10/2005 07:09:00 PM  
Blogger Psycho Milt said...

Joints are usually shared, so anyone sconning three of them on their own (or the equivalent of three in a shared situation) is a very serious munter, I reckon. Hard to imagine someone like that holding down a job for long.

10/10/2005 08:27:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Amazing the things that you learn here. I had no idea that three joints was a large number.

10/10/2005 08:30:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Depends on quality of the weed involved, surely. And i thought alot of the stuff you get in suburban Auckland was crap. Comments, anyone?

10/10/2005 08:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sheesh ..only three joints a day mon..that's doing it hard mon...what..just one with each meal..?..c'mon mon..what about morning and afternoon tea...and then there's the evening..and what if guests come around mon..and the weekends mon..they deserve a celebrating mon

btw adolf..i know a lot of people..myself included.. who smoke weed..don't smoke tobacco and don't drink (me hardly ever..and then 1-2 beers..tops..)

and pm..i don't share joints...thats how you get the flu..etc..

there aren't that many people out there i want to share saliva with..eh..?

any other myths i can clear up for you here..?

btw the stoicism/asceticism of lucyna does not come as a surprise...i would have been surprised at anything else..

ya gotta maintain that control (self included) at all times..eh..?

you never know what might happen if you let those defences down....it could result in ideological uncertainty...or something as perilous as the questioning of deeply -held beliefs..mmmmmm....

i dare you to get stoned and then contemplate the realities and implications of hitting children/other humans as a form of discipline..

it might just cause the scales to fall from your eyes..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/10/2005 09:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

seriously though..al is right..if the weed is choice enough..three joints a day would be more than enough...

how do you know you are smoking good weed..?
you fire up...and a while later realise you are really loaded/toasted..and the half-burnt long gone out joint is still stuck between your fingers...


and of course the size of the joint and the mix in it matters..

in more excessive decades/in other parts of the planet i used to blend several types of high quality wed and several types of high quality hash together..
and i would defy most people to be able to smoke three of those on your own..
whiteout/rebirth time..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/10/2005 09:21:00 PM  
Blogger Whaleoil said...

The missus was a school teacher, she can spot a dope head at 50 paces.

Ask any secondary school teacher with half their wits about them and they will tell you the same thing, dope is not harmless, it makes kids stoopid, that is why it is called dope.

The arguement that it isn't harmful at all just look at me is completely negated by Nandor Tanzcos.

10/10/2005 09:21:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

It's not going to happen, Phil.

Oh btw, you must have missed where I said I used to belong to a group of anti-smacking mothers. The scales did fall from my eyes.

10/10/2005 09:22:00 PM  
Blogger Whaleoil said...

I always wondered why Phul was not on this planet...I wonder no more.

10/10/2005 09:23:00 PM  
Blogger JamesP said...

Heh. I'm sure I'm not alone in preferring not to formulate my core beliefs while in a drug fuelled haze. Something about having to live with them when I'm not wasted...

10/10/2005 09:49:00 PM  
Blogger Blair said...

I'm far more worried about Sue Kedgely's mental health than Nandor's.

Anyone who smokes more than one joint in a day has defeated the purpose of smoking the stuff. Unlike alcohol, having a second joint doesn't get you any higher, because your body immediately builds up a tolerance for it. However, it does make you more stupider.

These people who abuse drugs ruin it for the rest of us who might just want something to relax with at the weekend.

10/10/2005 10:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

blair...how exactly do people who smoke more than you 'ruin it' for you..(isn't there enough left for you..?..)

or is that just one of those trite mindless cliches people trot out..?
i think so..

and that's your quota for this month..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/10/2005 10:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lucyna..what was it made you pick up the rod..swish it around a few times and go "whoar..that feels good..i might start me some whacking..bring those chilren over here..i'll start on them.."

did you go through a period of unenlightment..?

(on a purely theraputic level i can recommend high quality e..not the commercial speedy rubbish..but the pure/clear stuff..)

good for ripping off the scabs that blind us..eh..?..especially those of our own doing..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/10/2005 10:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

of course i meant unenlightenment..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/10/2005 10:27:00 PM  
Blogger Psycho Milt said...

You don't share your joints, Phil? What kind of a socialist are you? I don't think I've ever hogged one all to myself or stood by and let someone else do it either, for that matter. Not that I've indulged since I had kids, the two don't go together - or haven't the scales fallen from your eyes yet?

AL: one doesn't deign to recognise poor-quality joints...

10/10/2005 11:13:00 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

"...and what do you know, but it looks like weed causes lung cancer too."

Lucyna, don't believe everything you read - or think you read - in the newspaper.

"Professor Beasley said last night that his institute was close to finishing what he believed was the world's first study on links between cannabis and lung cancer."

"Professor Beasley said the institute's two studies should be finished within a month or two but it could take till well into next year before their publication in a medical or scientific journal."

In other words, the world's first study on links between cannabis and lung cancer is both unfinished and unpublished... so, what do you know, it doesn't look like weed causes lung cancer, after all.

10/11/2005 01:04:00 AM  
Blogger Blair said...

Must. not. feed the troll... must. not. feed the troll...

10/11/2005 04:18:00 AM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Richard. Smoking weed is well-known to release far greater amounts of carcinogens into the lungs than normal cigerettes (well, as far as carcinogens have ever been proven to cause cancer).

I remember reading about such studies in the late 90's.

Of course in 10 years we might find out lung cancer is caused by some as yet unstudied virus.

10/11/2005 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

AL, what is a carcinogen and what is not and in whose 'scientific' opinion? In 1971 (I think) the US EPA released a serious paper in which it concluded that, one way or another, all foodstuffs were carcinogens and therefore should be banned. Kedgley would have been right there.

10/11/2005 07:14:00 AM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Not sure. I checked many years ago, but can't remember sorry.

Many of the researchers in that field use mice bred from limited strains to maintain genetic purity as a control on other causes, which I find damn dodgy.

10/11/2005 07:33:00 AM  
Blogger Chefen said...

Partially burnt plant material generates all sorts of rubbish chemicals and grainy crap. Only a twit would suck a good amount into the lungs on a regular basis, regardless of what plant it was.

10/11/2005 07:40:00 AM  
Blogger noizy said...

3 joints a day, for one person, is outragreous.

"Partially burnt plant material generates all sorts of rubbish chemicals and grainy crap."

I'd recommned cookies or a vaporiser then. Or failing that, at least a decent bong.

10/11/2005 09:20:00 AM  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Remember too that smoking causes legislation.

10/11/2005 09:22:00 AM  
Blogger darren said...

There is also the link between cannabis and psychzophraenia to think about.
There is increasingly evicence that cannabis, especially in young people, causes psychophraenia , pyschosis and all kinds of mental ilnnesses.
I have a close friend who is an ex pot head and his mood swings are still horrendous.
With his brother, who is younger (20) and continues taking pot, I have seen his mood swings easily turn to violence against his partner.
Both are Maori and I blame the weed for these violent mood swings as I have never seen anything like it in non-smokers.
Thus, I think pot smoking also explains the higher incidence of violence and mental illnesses in Maori homes.
There is also the financial cost of smoking. I'm told a 'wrap' of pot is $20. A few of those, coupled with cigarettes, can easily take a big chunk out of ones wages.
Thus, another link, this time with poverty and all its related problems. And again, Maori are worst affected.
As for myself, a POM, I have tried weed perhaps a dozen times. It did nothing for me, no light headedness or anything. It just made me sleepy. What was the point of it? There wasn't any.
Thus, seeing the damage of drugtaking and cigarette smoking, be it financial, social, healthwise, etc, I have turned from being rather open minded to strongly anti on both scores.
Give me a good sauvignon blanc any day!

10/11/2005 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

aah darren....one of those who puffed on inferior cabbage a few times..it made them sleepy (as cabbage does) and they concluded they didn't see the point....i and many others could actually show you that point...but there you go..

interesting how you finish (degrade?) your anti-pot rave with a mumble in praise of alcohol...(a drug i personally find does nothing for me but is obviously your drug of choice..?)...excuse me..aren't the rightwing big on personal rights/choice..?..got a bit of a blind spot with this one..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/11/2005 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Phil, you are a sick, sad little man.

You have such a warped idea of what I might be like.

There was no One Defining Moment. No rod swishing. No "whoar". In fact, I can't even say that word without laughing.

Just a gradual relisation that being told what to do by damaged people negated my own instincts as a mother.

Just like my own instincts have kept me away from mind altering substances.

It may be that not physically discipling your children For You is that absolute safest thing to do. Since you are a pot head and not really physically there most of the time, there's no telling how out of control you would be if you let yourself.

The thing is Phil, I am NOT You. I am not a man, I cannot inflict as much damage as you might, and I don't get out of control. I don't use implements, just my rsi-prone right hand. I can't even remember when the last smack I administered was. Maybe a couple of months ago?

You are overlaying your bad memories of being caned as a boy at school with all physical discipline. Get over it.

10/11/2005 10:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lucyna..does your avoidance of mind-altering substances include alcohol..?

and so the only reason i've never hit my children is because i smoke pot....gee..that's another reason to smoke i hadn't thought of before...

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/11/2005 10:22:00 AM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Phil, alcohol and various mind altering drugs are not in the same league. Alcohol is disconnecting, not mind-altering.

10/11/2005 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Alcohol is disconnecting, not mind-altering.

That's true for alcohol available legally in NZ, though sculling Guinness has an interesting effect.

10/11/2005 11:21:00 AM  
Blogger MrTips said...

Phil

GK Chesterton was thinking of EXACTLY you when he wrote:

"If you argue with a madman, it is extremely probable that you will get the worst of it; for in many ways his mind moves all the quicker for not being delayed by the things that go with good judgment."

You are running the risk with marijuana of being permanently stuck on stupid. Whoops, maybe we're a bit late on that call.....

10/11/2005 11:28:00 AM  
Blogger Richard said...

"...not in the same league." That depends on what league you're talking about.

In the mortality league, more deaths are attributed to alcohol use than are attributed to the use of all illicit drugs combined.

In the violence league, more violence is caused by alcohol use than is caused by the use of all illicit drugs combined.

So, yes, alcohol is in a different league.

"Alcohol is disconnecting, not mind-altering." Care to elaborate, Lucyna? Or is this merely a spurious distinction?

10/11/2005 11:38:00 AM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Since we are talking about mind altering, that is the league, Richard.

Mind alteration is when reality changes in your mind. Do you disagree that is what various drugs do?

While as I have never experienced any sort of reality shift while drinking alcohol. Gradual disconnection from my body and loss of inhibitions, yes - reality shift, no.

10/11/2005 11:51:00 AM  
Blogger Richard said...

Recreational drugs are often categorised according to their effects, e.g. depressants, stimulants, psychedelics. In terms of effects, alcohol has more in common with other depressants such as heroin and GHB than it does with cannabis. Nonetheless, alcohol affects perceptions, emotions, behaviour and judgement and is, therefore, a mind-altering drug.

"I don't smoke anything. Or take drugs, not even head ache pills." Yes, you do, since you drink alcohol.

The article on the purported connection between cannabis use and lung cancer in Maori is a media beat-up. All part of the ongoing persecution of cannabis users, which you apparently endorse.

10/11/2005 12:26:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Richard, if I were taking the alcohol component only, then I would agree with you. But I drink beverages which contain alcohol. I do not drink them to get drunk. People who take mind-altering drugs take them to get their minds altered, not to enjoy the tasted of the stuff as it goes down.

I really don't care if you and others want to smoke dope and get stoned. What gets me really annoyed is this whole, holier than thou, weed is better for you than smoking or drinking crap that so many of you spout.

I think it's a good thing that this sort of study is being done and wouldn't at all be surprised if the results, when finalised, are just as damning as what has been written about so far. At least that way, people who get themselves stoned won't be able to pretend that their choice is actually healthy.

10/11/2005 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Richard said...

Fair comments, Lucyna.

Just for some balance, read this.

10/11/2005 03:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah lucyna and i used to like the catchy little taste in the back of the throat..(hence the word taste) when i injected heroin and cocaine mixed together...
and the smells and tastes of high quality marijuana or hashish are a taste delight in themselves..

your double standards are gob-smacking lucyna..so you only drink for the taste..?..oh..i see...

and you only hit children for their own good.eh..?..(i hope you don't do that after drinking..just for the taste, of course..)

mindaltering/disconnecting...
and just how many angels do you think could dance on the head of a pin lucyna..?

a new benchmark has been struck for disingenuous...

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/11/2005 03:53:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

No, Phil, I drink for the entire experience. I don't need to get drunk for that experience to become complete. Unlike you, I somehow doubt that the tastes to ascribe to various drugs are really only delightful because of what was yet to come.

I also don't expect you to understand the subtlties of the mind - body connection, something I spend years studying. Especially since you seem to spend so much effort making sure that your mind is not in any way connected to your body and is floating off somewhere in lala land where everything is nice and, well, let's not go there ...

10/11/2005 05:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lucyna..
".. No, Phil, I drink for the entire experience.."

all the way to the falldown/howl at the moon/blind aggro/upchuck/wicked hangover stage..?

btw..weed dosen't give you that nasty painful morning after feeling....

and as for your disdain over the nasal/visual and other delights around the magic herb..you've obviously never been to a group seriously/obsessional/ growers/users herbtasting evening...have you..?.."no,no..try mine next.."..

as for your interest in the mind body connection lucyna..you might be interested to know i have left mine twice..seriously..and no, there was no way enough drugs had been taken to cause this..one time was when i was on my own....and the experience caused/helped me to stop using junk..i left myself and looked back down at myself from above..and saw how i really was...it was fucken mindboggling..and incredibly empowering..

the other time..(the first time) i was sitting crosslegged on the floor talking to a woman who was sitting crosslegged facing me....(she was totally straight..me stoned..but not off my face..)
i left..and was up in the corner of the room at ceiling level..looking back down at myself..and at her leaning forward and shaking my shoulder..
i don't know how long it lasted..it wasn't a matter of minutes though..

when i came back the woman who was shaking my shoulder was freaked out..her face was ashen..and she said to me "where the fuck have you been..?)
she said it was like i was dead..all my life energy was gone..and that i had died..

y'see..that's how i know we are not just the body..(that's all i know..by the way..:)

but that knowledge is exhilerating and liberating...and fear killing..

(whoar!...that was quite the burble... )

is that the sort of mind body connection you are talking about..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

10/11/2005 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

No, Phil. What you've described is a spirit-body connection, or lack thereof. Mind-body is being aware of what is happening in your body. Physicality with mental awareness.

10/11/2005 09:10:00 PM  

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