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Saturday, October 22, 2005

Abu Ghraib photos released soon?

By my count the 20 day stay on the release of more Abu Ghraib photos should have expired in the last couple of days. So come on NY Times and CNN - you know you want to do it. The positive vibes surrounding the Iraq Constitution vote and Saddam's trial have been allowed to continue for too long. You must put a stop to it! Twisting Iraq into a failure for the upcoming midterm US elections depends on you!

Posted by Antarctic Lemur | 10/22/2005 12:33:00 PM


Blogger Chris said...

Is it your opinion that large, mainstream, media outlets should not report on the new photos, if released? What would you like them to do? What will be the harm if they do? Afterall, people such as yourself, AL, suggest that images such as these do not spur on the terrorists at all.

10/22/2005 01:54:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Well lets see:

1) As far as we know they are not "new" photos at all, rather more from the same period of abuse at Abu Ghraib from two years ago.

2) The problem is "story selection" bias. It is not acceptable for a major Western media outlet to replay stories examining small-scale stories negative to the United States effort in Iraq and already resolved, such as the Abu Ghraib abuse involving just one small unit which has already been dealt with, while reporting stories of far greater magnitude at the same or less level of intensity. That is not "fair" reporting of news - it is agenda-based journalism.

Now whether the agenda is ruining the effort in Iraq, boosting Democratic Party efforts in future elections, attacking Bush, anti-Arab racism, attacking the ideals of capitalism and democracy, indulging in ridiculous levels of destructive self-criticism, or all of the above is up for debate.

10/22/2005 03:25:00 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

That's an interesting perspective. I don't see how several of the points that you say are debatable are relevant. Namely the "anti-Arab rascism" one, "attacking the principles of capitalism and democracy" (considering that most capitalists and democrats were shocked and horrified by what happened at Abu Ghraib), and the "indulging in ridiculous levels of destructive self-criticism". The media didn't have any involvement in the planning or execution in the invasion of Iraq, so how could it be self-criticism?

10/22/2005 06:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

al...as it is claimed these images include video footage of young muslim boys being sodomised in front of their mothers as a form of torture/information gathering...it is not a minor matter..not an example of (in your words) "..small-scale stories negative to the United States effort in Iraq..."

i know you are aware of the content of these allegations al....are you trying for a new benchmark in disengenuous here...al...?

if not....what..?


10/23/2005 10:29:00 AM  
Blogger Chris said...

Sodomised in front of their mothers?! I hope not. That could incite some anti-American terrorism I reckon. If it was happening to my people it would incite me to something.

10/23/2005 11:20:00 AM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Those allegations were not supported by the testimony of the US Army general who investigated the abuse, aside from forced poses already mentioned in the public record and documented by already released photos.

The fact you are apparently waiting with baited breath to find out if those rumours spread by New Yorker magazine (I believe that was the publication) are true is disturbing. You should be hoping they are not true.

10/23/2005 12:13:00 PM  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Claimed by who Phil? That's something I have not come across.

I did see claims relating to that offence, and accounts of children being blinded in front of parents under Saddam's regime. Is it possible the accounts were mis-"credited"?

With Saddam's trial coming up, I wonder if we will get detailed accounts of the widespread torture and abuse that dwarfs the scale of the US torture (Not that I'm condoning US Torture, I want the people responsible for that punished too - without the propaganda)

10/23/2005 12:21:00 PM  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Nobody but the nuttiest of nutters could believe that after all this time there will be dramatic revelations of 'boys sodomised in front of their parents' by American guards. Do you think for one moment the ant-amerrikkan hoardes would have put out shots of a bloke with grundies on his head if they could have had ridgy didge sodomy to serve up? Phil, no doubt your friends will have the videos of Dubbya, Condi, Cheney and Rumsey all looking on through a one way mirror?

10/23/2005 12:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

adolf..and zen..these videos have been seen by congress..and seymour hersch (amongst others).. says he has also seen the torture footage..

why they haven't been seen till now is that they have been tied up in the courts/american political/security apparatus..
(hence al's refernce to expiring deadlines..)

(nb. .i didn't say americans were sodomising..i haven't seen the video..and hersch didn't specify...he appeared renered almost speechless by the gravity/grossness of what he had seen..reduced to spluttering..saying it was some of the most harrowing footage he had ever seen..and was a scandal of enormous proportions...)

zen..as to where to find this information..

well..zen..you could try reading whoar.co.nz each and every day...you know it's always chocka with interesting info...i dig deep..
(and of course all stories are sourced/referenced..:)

i have done a couple of previous stories on this..(with links of course..)
any reasoned search of my archives will turn up these and other gems..:)


10/23/2005 01:04:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Here's a summary of Hersh's 2004 claims:


He did not view the supposed video evidence himself, he said 'people had come out of the woodwork' to tell him stories about it.

Here are the abuses General Taguba's summary report documented:

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.


The first four named suspects involved were all MP's and have been court-martialled. The 5th appears to be an (Iraqi?) translator working for a Military Intelligence unit and I don't know what happened to him.

10/23/2005 04:28:00 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

Sounds brutal.

10/23/2005 04:33:00 PM  
Anonymous dim said...

Hersh made the claim about children-raped-in-front-of-their-Mothers claim in a speech to the ACLU. He later revised the claim, making the allegation: "An attorney involved in the case told me in July 2004 that one of the witness statements he had read described the rape of a boy by a foreign contract employee who served as an interpreter at Abu Ghraib,” Hersh wrote. “In the statement, which had not been made public, the lawyer told me, a prisoner stated that he was a witness to the rape, and that a woman was taking pictures."

Samuel Provance - a US military intelligence agent stationed at Abu Ghraib also went public about the rape of inmates at the prison because he felt the army was covering up the story.

I guess it's possible that the translators working in Abu Ghraib are Iraqi, but I think it's unlikely. Brig Gen Janis Karpinsky has alleged that Israeli interrogators were employed at the facility. PMC company CACI had four contractors at Abu Ghraib - their names were Steven Stephanowicz, John Israel, Torin Nelson and Adel Nakhla.

10/23/2005 05:55:00 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

Oh no. That should do wonders for Arab-Israeli relations.

10/23/2005 08:58:00 PM  

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