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Wednesday, August 17, 2005

New blog: Drone Talks

Relatively new blogger Drone Talks has an interesting post on anti-Americanism in New Zealand:
You may have seen the latest Hell Pizza billboards around town, yes I know they a just a bit of a joke but I think there is a little bit of an undercurrent of intent there which is symptomatic of a wider view that is commonly held about the USA in NZ society at the moment. It is now very fashionable to be anti-american and even more so anti George W. Bush. Anything American from its culture, to its companies, its religious faith and of course its foreign policy is viewed to be an object of contempt and derision by many. Many people (including our government) oppose America in general, as a matter of principle, across many areas.
Yep, apparently so.

Posted by Antarctic Lemur | 8/17/2005 04:23:00 PM


Blogger Eurokiwi said...

it's not correct to put it's when you mean its

8/17/2005 05:01:00 PM  
Blogger reid said...

I disagree with the argument that it's a generalised feeling - I think it's pretty specific to the current administration.

There has always been a segment of people (mostly lefties) who dislike America period. I'm not talking about those.

But I think there are a lot of other people who don't and never have drawn any connection between the "war on terror" (soon to be renamed) and Iraq.

They see the US involvement there not as a self-defence reaction but as an agressive move for venal purposes (Haliburton etc).

They also look at Bush's smirking arrogance (e.g. with Bolton), and they draw conclusions from there.

Now if I'm right, these people are not anti-US, they are anti-venal arrogant bullies. And Bush's administration is full of them.

8/17/2005 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger RightWingDeathBeast said...

If you can't see any connection between Iraq and the war on terror you have a serious case of headuparseitis. You don't seriously believe that surely.

8/17/2005 05:21:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

reid, my memories of anti-American New Zealanders go back to at least 1996, the beginning of the 2nd Clinton term.

It's only stronger now because leftwing NZers appear to strongly identify with the Democratic Party and its lack of political success in the USA.

8/17/2005 05:31:00 PM  
Blogger Drone said...

EuroKiwi - You are correct, my bad. Now fixed.

8/17/2005 05:36:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

I remember it starting around 1980, close to Christmas, I think. There was this real feeling of protest against nuclear ships.

8/17/2005 05:36:00 PM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Changing the subject slightly, but have you noticed how many ads are saying "proud to be Australian Made"? And using Aussie actors and not local versions.

I'm sure it's irrational but when a product is sold by an Aussie or American, and there's no logical reason for it I get grumpy!

8/17/2005 05:43:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

It's that subconcious programming kicking in, Sarah.

Welcome to Sir Humphreys, btw!

8/17/2005 05:47:00 PM  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

NZ full of US-hatred? Definitely. But what do you expect when National Radio presenters go into a fit when they hear Bush's name?

But we can look outside NZ for its cause. US-hatred is initiated and fueled by US-hatred from the US itself. "This country isn't worth dying for" says it all, isn't it? Hollywood, CNN, all the stations that sprout US hatred, it's all lapped up immediately here.

But I also believe most people hate the US unconsciously. They just get their opinion from the MSM. And in the way the MSM present Bush and the US, I think feelings of hatred are almost justified.

8/17/2005 05:48:00 PM  
Blogger Chefen said...

Venal purposes Reid? Bwa ha ha. So where was the proud public when Clinton went gungho into Bosnia for venal purposes? As for Bolton, where was the stink when Clinton recess appointed his nomination? You are not right, Bush gives the anti-America crowd a convenient cover at this point in time. Scratch them a little deeper and you find reality. It's the same in Sweden, America stands for everything they find uncomfortable even though they have no idea. If the national health system is falling to pieces, at least it isn't America. If it's gun violence, at least it isn't America. If it's sanctimonious political speech, at least it isn't America. Uncuriously the attitudes are strongest amongst those who have never even been to America and weak to nonexistent among those who have. In other words, those who surmise how America works from the daily rag don't seem to own a mirror... and they have the cheek to call the American public ignorant. I shit you not, one day a coworker remarked that America goes to war whenever a Republican president needs reelecting, he was a bit perplexed when I pointed out that most wars the US has been in have been under Democrat presidents and that war is generally bad for reelection. Try arguing the reverse points about Sweden or NZ to selfsame people and watch the apoplexy. Still, who needs reality?

8/17/2005 05:54:00 PM  
Blogger Lucyna said...

If we had the ships visiting again, NZ'er's would get to meet real military Americans and realise that they are actually human and not so bad. I think keeping the ships away feeds into the fear of American militarism, as silly as that sounds.

It's the age old commie thing, fear of outsiders coming in and destroying the negative view of them that you've spent so long cultivating.

8/17/2005 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger reid said...

RWDB - your mileage may vary but I see around the internet from multiple and varied sources plenty of evidence that Bush et al agitated for war in Iraq way prior to 911, and I see evidence that his WMD assertions were a setup, complete BS from the start. It follows from that, for me, that evidence of support for terrorists, is likely also to be BS too.

This is just one small example to back up my belief, but there is mountains of other stuff. I recall you kindly referred me to some of yours a few weeks ago too which I add into the mix.

Until we see the papers in 50 years, I don't think the truth will out. Of course I could be completely wrong and try to be open to alternatives. However, events still play out that I interpret, personally, as backing up my position.

For instance, I view that report released a few weeks ago saying that the Iranians were 10 years away from a nuke, as a leak by the intelligence community, released deliberately in an attempt to avoid the same disinformation happening again, with respect to going into Iran. According to my understanding the CIA and the military are not happy with Bush and this is payback.

I'm sure you completely disagree :)

AL - that's interesting re the sentiment dating back to 1996. Do you have any thoughts on what might have caused that? (Apart from rising lefty insanity, which goes without saying of course, look what happened in 1999.)

8/17/2005 06:13:00 PM  
Blogger Keith said...

I've yet to meet anyone who has lived in the U.S. for any significant period of time who was anti-American.
It's largely a stupid attitude bred of ignorance. Curious, isn't it that lefties castigate us for making generalisations about people based on their nationality, but are more than ready to do exactly that where Americans are concerned?

8/17/2005 06:14:00 PM  
Blogger reid said...

Sorry, that link is supposed to be:


8/17/2005 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger Chefen said...

Come on Reid, this was about anti-Americanism, not the ins and outs of Dubya and who is backstabbing who.

8/17/2005 06:15:00 PM  
Blogger reid said...

Chefen, Dubya's behaviour is what I attribute the sentiment to.

Note that I distinguish the comparatively recent rise in anti-US sentiment, from that handful of peculiar lefties who have always been anti-US (e.g. Clark is one of those). Their issues can be traced back to Vietnam and the Cold War. The cause of the more recent rise lies elsewhere.

8/17/2005 07:32:00 PM  
Blogger Chefen said...

Reid, I explained above why Dubya has little to do with it and is a convenient cover. How about you consider the Clinton points, he did the same as Bush yet you attribute it all to Bush. Care to explain?

8/17/2005 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

I disagree Reid. I think people who chattered with their friends at Uni and polytech about the evil United States now populate the lower, middle and upper ranks of many media-oriented companies in New Zealand. In that grouping I included news media, advertising, graphical design, television and movie production, and commercial non-talkback radio.

I also have distinct memories of anti-American teachers at high school, yet not a single memory of a pro-American teacher. Tell me how a high school student can arrive at University without a pile of anti-American conspiracy theories ingested from such teachers, especially if the kids families haven't encouraged other sources of information such as foreign magazines.

Its nothing more than a bunch of people in the shallower fields of endeavour sharing the same hysterical poorly-informed socialist opinions made popular by extreme-left lying academics like Chomsky.

Fortunately the Internet now allows a smorgasboard of information and opinion which can be cross-checked using Google etc.

8/17/2005 07:46:00 PM  
Blogger reid said...

Chefen, I myself, personally, place Clinton and Bush into the same basket of complete bastards who have screwed the great nation of America. Clinton's watch for example included highly compromising and suspicious defence secrets being passed to China with complicity. That's me however. Most people never noticed that and think Clinton was just great. That's how I explain Clinton - he is/was a SOB, his wife is just as bad, most people don't and didn't and won't recognise that, but that's life and that explains the sentiment, which I don't myself share.

AL, I agree. I don't know how people in the media sleep at night.

8/17/2005 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger Chefen said...

I give up.

8/17/2005 08:13:00 PM  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

reid doesn't seem to remember all the journos complaining about Bush's lack of foreign policy experience. Just a gusy from Texas. He would be an isolationist, bladibladibla. And he would have been probably, if it wasn't for 911.

But whatever. reid, you're entitled to sweep aside whatever fact you find inconvenient in your reality.

8/17/2005 08:41:00 PM  

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