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Friday, August 26, 2005

Friday Night Free For All

Starting later this evening from about 7:30pm. I tend to turn up after 8:30pm.

Today in history, 66 years ago Hitler had to put of his planned invasion of Poland because Italy wasn't ready. It makes me wonder if what is obvious in hindsight was so obvious then, could people have predicted that Hitler was going to invade? Was Chamberlain really so deluded in his own abilities that he just couldn't see it, or was it one of those situations where if a pre-emptive strike was done on Germany would some people be screaming from the rooftops that it wasn't necessary to attack, that Germany was harmless?

An interesting parallel with today's times is that Chamberlain convinced Poland to stand down from their general mobilisation so as not to antagonise Hilter, right before Germany attacked on September 1st. It's that whole, don't make them attack you rubbish.

Onto lighter things, here is a story of me and the purse snatcher at Town Hall Station.

The purpose of this free for all is to talk about anything, so feel free to bring topics up. Don't get offended if your topic isn't noticed, be brave and say it again, sometimes these free for alls move pretty fast.

Posted by Lucia Maria | 8/26/2005 07:30:00 pm

110 Comments:

Blogger Murray said...

Satay chicken on rice.

8/26/2005 06:33:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Adolf and The Cook greatly enjoy watching cooking programmes on The Living Channel. There are some marvellous characters such as Wolfgang Puck vis ze slightly gemanic American tvang and the fabulous superb Mario (I thnk) from the Gondola on the Murray. How many of you guys have tasted a feed of fresh yabbies or a fillet of Murray Cod?

One thing that makes us laugh is the way the Yanks murder herbs. For a start these blokes should rot in ell because they think herbs are erbs. Then it takes six weeks to realise what they mean when they say ohREGano or bayzyl or siRELL. Then there's an awful pommified Italian with long lank unkempt hair and no hat. This rooster uses some strange liquid call viNEIGHger.

Down at the bottom of nelson St in Auckland is a joint called 'Seamart.' I could eat fish forever (I'm a bro, see?) and I can visit this place and just wanter around in awe for half an hour. I took a mate from down country in there and he reckoned it was a tourist attraction in its own right. If you ever go to Sydney, go to the Sydney Fish Market at Piermont. You can wander around the magnificent fish market, buy what you want and then have it cooked while you watch, wander outside to a table beside the water, crack opedn a bottle of chablis and BLISS!!!!!!!!!!!!1

8/26/2005 07:09:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

bloody foodies---it's only fuel, after all.

8/26/2005 07:31:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

woohoo! I just felt my first earthquake!

8/26/2005 07:37:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Kieth, where are you? Aceh?

8/26/2005 07:39:00 pm  
Blogger Whaleoil said...

Hi de ho campers

8/26/2005 07:41:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Had Thai food tonight. I wish they did tofu, I love tofu in thai food. Oh well.

Now to somehow get the kids to go to bed.

8/26/2005 07:41:00 pm  
Blogger Whaleoil said...

I find saying Kids go to bed NOW works a treat.

8/26/2005 07:42:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Anyway, now that I've had a good burp I can contemplate the world. Usually I side with industry and throw rocks at the wingers but in the case of the interisland ferries buggering up the seashore in Torres Strait and other approaches to Picton I think the capitalists should be told to piss off and slow down. The destruction they are causing is obvious to Blind Freddy and for them to be relying on some dubious legal device called "prior use" is despicable. So there!!

8/26/2005 07:42:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Agreed Adolf. Fish market at Piermont - Christmas - for fresh prawns and scallops for the Aussie BBQ with friends, family, warm weather and a few nice bottles of wine or beer.

Hmmmm.

Keith, by "its only fuel", you mean that prawns by the kilo are now the same cost as petrol by the litre, yeah, know what you mean.

8/26/2005 07:44:00 pm  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

Cool. Just saw the last episode of the second year Babylon 5 yesterday. Deluded is my answer Lucyna. Helen really believes she's living in a benign strategic environment where you can sell your air force because no one will fly an airplane into the Sky Tower.

Some people really believe that if you are a pacifist, everyone else will become one too.

8/26/2005 07:47:00 pm  
Blogger Whaleoil said...

I have found it is only good being a pacifist if you have loads of guns and bombs to enforce the premise...viz a viz Switzerland.

8/26/2005 07:49:00 pm  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

No Thai for me tonight, but delicious egg fried rice with sweet and sour sauce.

8/26/2005 07:49:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Whale, I have to wash them and read them bed time stories first. This is after prying them away from Cartoon Network, which I let them watch tonight because it's Friday. Only problem is, making sure I get to turn the tv off at the half hour point, otherwise my 4yo has a tantrum.

Sometimes the tantrums are just too much for me and it's best to avoid them altogether. Yes, I know I'm weak.

Sydney Fish Markets, they were good. Though you don't need to go there to get good seafood in Sydney, our local fish and chip resturant in Lane Cove did amazing fish and king prawns takeaway. Their calamari was the real thing too, not like the fake stuff they try to flog here.

8/26/2005 07:50:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

AF, in Whakatane. (pronounced "whackertane")
Just kidding, stirring up the bros. :o)

8/26/2005 07:51:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

Prawns...*shudder*. remind me of spiders.
Good bait though, as are crayfish tails.

8/26/2005 07:53:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

I think the approach to Picton is no problem. Things slow down by about 20 years the closer you get.

However, all efforts to make a clean getaway back to Wellington need to be with the environment in mind. I don't care if Helen Clark is piloting the ship, it just has to go slower.

(Hey, just joking about the Picton thing. I remember a few trips on the Ferry when I was a kid, over to Picton and it was a really great day. Have to take the kids over now that you've reminded me)

Recently I heard the Super Cat service was wound up. Having a smaller displacement, they would likely go faster than a huge Ferry without causing damage. However, the stupid law is 15 knots, regardless of wake effect. Surely, the speed could be set according to the relative displacement??

8/26/2005 07:53:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Kieth, you wanna try telling Michael Angelo he was only painting the ceiling

8/26/2005 07:56:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

AF, and it could have done with a second coat, I reckon.

8/26/2005 07:58:00 pm  
Blogger fm said...

Humanitarian aid exercise in Thailand, sans NZ.

Oz press release:
[Pacific Airlift Rally is a biennial exercise sponsored by the United States Pacific Air Force] involving 17 different countries, including Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, Philippines, Malaysia, Japan, Singapore, Nepal, India, Fiji, Brunei, Bangladesh and the United States...

"The exercise, involving participants from as far away as Mongolia, Madagascar, and Tonga, will allow ADF personnel to share their experiences learnt from their involvement in Operation Sumatra Assist...

"Pacific Airlift Rally represents an important opportunity to test our own abilities in support of humanitarian aid operations and to ensure the ADF remains able to contribute effectively to multinational airlift operations within a disaster relief context," Senator Hill said.

http://www.minister.defence.gov.au/Hilltpl.cfm?CurrentId=5069


But apparently the RNZAF didn't go. Why is that? Humanitarian missions seem like core business these days. Were they not invited, was there not enough money in the budget, or were the Hercules unserviceable?

Just askin'...

8/26/2005 08:02:00 pm  
Anonymous Ryan said...

Evening all... my election observations as the week ends...

Campaigns are run in phases. I hope that the next phase of the National campaign begins this Sunday, with a new set of TVCs.

Things need to ramp up.

Perception is important, and the talk of National slipping in the race is gathering. It might just become a self-furfilling prophecy. But, such is the fickle nature of the electorate (or more specifically the media) a 'surge' of support for National in a new poll will probably alay the doomsdayers for now.

Right now momentum is important.

National is in danger of drifting. Stay on message, on tax, until Sunday, and then ramp up. National needs to be careful not to appear desperate, because they shouldn't be, but now it's time to step up a gear.

There's three weeks to go, a long time, but it's a pivotal time in the campaign now. National must have a serious of good polls, and start putting they're case more forcefully to build momentum for the final enslaught.

I think National's 'gentlemanly' approach is working, but we now need to see the party tie together some of it's key policies together. I'd go strong on Tax Cuts, Treaty - one law for all, Law & Order. They need to flesh out a cohesive message on touchstone issues. Not just tax.

I'll be looking out for the new creative on Monday. National is cleverly taking their campaign to the shopping centres with laptops promoting taxcuts.co.nz. National needs signage at every supermarket in every marginal. Tax Cuts, Petrol.

On that theme, perhaps a TVC featuring a supermarket? Two queues, one with $50 off (tax cuts), one without. A Blue queue and a Red queue, one with more money and more groceries, one without.

We've seen nothing from National that is negative yet. I'd expect that to come in the final days.

National needs to find a new gear next week, and Don Brash needs to decide if he wants to really be PM.

8/26/2005 08:12:00 pm  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

Lucyna, it's possible to raise kids without tv, saves a lot of tantrums :-)))

8/26/2005 08:13:00 pm  
Blogger Berend de Boer said...

ryan, read Gordon King's (nzpundit) observatios?

8/26/2005 08:14:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

ryan, pretty good analysis, I reckon.But what do I know? I hate prawns.

8/26/2005 08:16:00 pm  
Anonymous Ryan said...

Berend, yes I read King's observations. I don't think National's chances are that gloomy, yet. TV One News actually gave National mildy favourable coverage tonight I thought.

8/26/2005 08:17:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Kieth, have you ever tried garlic spiders? Cray tails are very good bait for blue moki, a most under rated fish.

8/26/2005 08:24:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

AF, are you mad? Why add garlic to something only a pest control operator would deal with? I don't sprinkle cockroaches with basil, either.
mm..mmmmmm blue moki. Great fish. It's just pity they can't peel off more than a centimetre of 1kg breaking-strain line, eh? All they're good for is eating, dammit.

8/26/2005 08:32:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

six mugs of coffee, half a dozen cigarettes......
Breakfast of champions. This food thing is much overrated.

8/26/2005 08:38:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Oh I know, Berend. I'm normally very strict on TV. They both go to Steiner which is very anti-tv, and they normally don't watch any - can go weeks without it, or like at the moment on a very limited basis - Fridays only. My 4yo is the toughest, has always tantrumed, ever since he was old enough to figure it out (age 12 months or so).

They're both in bed now, a cat on each bed, purring away. The cats seem to really loooove the woollen blankets which are now on top of the duvets.

Garlic Prawns ... mmmmmm. If anyone ever takes a trip to Sydney, you have to go to my absolute favourity Thai resturant - The Bai Yok in Crows Nest on the Pacific Highway (just up the road from North Sydney over the bridge). It's divine. Seafood on Fire is one of my favourite dishes. They also do a whole baked fish with an amazing sweet chili sauce poured over it. Their Green Prawn Curry is gorgeous.

Oh no, now I'm remembering it!

8/26/2005 08:51:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

So we have one deluded from Berend, any more?

8/26/2005 08:53:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

"The paper will seek to counter the academic orthodoxy that men and women are basically the same and that any sex differences are due to pressure from society to conform to gender stereotypes. "

Whaaat?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10342538

8/26/2005 08:54:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Labour just had the Saint David dance, how points were in that alone?

How many succesful profesional kiwis are not polled because they've left NZ but are still able to vote?

Gordon and I were amongst a dinner party about two years ago when a couple of politicals from the center right had already written off this election THEN.

This capacity from throwing in the towel at the smallest bump is disturbing.

Stay the course and do the job.

8/26/2005 08:57:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Interesting, Keith. Things like that don't worry me. I've had my intelligence tested, I know where I stand. They're normally set to a population level anyway.

I read somewhere else that men's and women's brains work differently, but can achieve similiar results.

Women, on a population level, don't tend to spend as much time working academically as men do. That has to be factored in.

8/26/2005 09:01:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

I think the politicos will be very surprised by the election result.

8/26/2005 09:02:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

FM, it's probably anything to do with flying is bad - therefore going is not a good thing. But I'm just guessing.

No, wait, it's a non-UN mission!

8/26/2005 09:04:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Re the intelligence thing. It is fairly well known that men and women have the same average IQ, but the variation in men is much more extreme. Thus if you take someone who is "genius", say IQ 120+, they are more likely to be a man. On the other hand, if you have a truly moronic individual of blinding stupidity, they are also more likely to be a man.

BTW, good evening all.

8/26/2005 09:05:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

lucyna, I didn't take much notice of the IQ thing, but the "sex differences are due to pressure from society" part just looks insane.

8/26/2005 09:06:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Hi Ryan,

This is interesting with the perception that National is slipping. If it's slipping, it must be with the undecideds. Everyone I know has already decided who they support - though I'm working on my mother.

8/26/2005 09:06:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

"On the other hand, if you have a truly moronic individual of blinding stupidity, they are also more likely to be a man."

OI !! I heard that!
evenin, Chefen.

8/26/2005 09:08:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Hi Chefen!

I didn't know that, about the extreme variation in men's IQ. I think this thing of talking male/female IQ is a no-go zone mostly.

8/26/2005 09:08:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

The most under rated eating fish in NZ is Kahawai (Sea Trout is australia) Bleed the buggers as soon as caught. Fillet and cut the fillets cross wise into quarter inch slices ala surimi. Drop into boiling fat/oil for twnty seconds. Any longer and it's stuffed. Manifico.

8/26/2005 09:10:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

So women sit to pee because of "social presure"?

8/26/2005 09:10:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Lucyna, you don't hear about it much unless you sift round the people who do the actual research. It is very non-PC, as it is a complete negation of the whole gender construct thing. But it exists and is well documented. It's what what's his name at Harvard got in the crap for. Of course it says nothing about an individual, just that your average genius or plonker is more often a man.

8/26/2005 09:10:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

But it's seeking to counter that assumption that sex differences are due to society pressures. Is that something you'd never come across as a concept? I remember when my kids were born I had to relearn my understanding of male/female tendancies. I don't know where this thought that we were basically the same came from, but I know it was there for me.

8/26/2005 09:11:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

and social pressure means you never have to put the seat up again afterwards...

8/26/2005 09:11:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

My last comment was for Keith, btw.

8/26/2005 09:12:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

Lucyna, I can't believe that there are still people who believe that stuff about societal pressures and expectations being responsible for sex differences. Maybe academics need to get out a bit more.
I think the differences are actually far more profound than it's pc to admit.

8/26/2005 09:15:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Some people really know how to bugger up an intelligent conversation by talking about fish.

8/26/2005 09:15:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

There was an article yesterday about, despite years of trying, enrolments in science at university here are still low for females. They look ever deeper for the sexist causes in the institutions, but never ask what the girls actually want to do... again, boys on average are more into that thing. Even chimps show a similar bias, yet humans are suddenly supposed to be blank slates at birth.

8/26/2005 09:18:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Don't get crabby or the conversation could flounder.

8/26/2005 09:18:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Anyway, now that I've buggered it up I'd better complete the job. One of my most cherished childhood memories is going to visit with my Maori mates across the other side of the valley. I'm talking about 1955. Auntie Queenie used to make the most fabulous fried bread. This is not what you think. You see, back then people made their own bread and this particular delicacy was made by taking a piece of dough and and teasing it out until it was paper thin. Then into boiling beef fat for a minute or two. None of this politically correct vehetable oil, thank you. The result was a bit like a dough nut but heaps better. Then on with the butter and genuine blackberry jam. Oh Man!!!!

Where can you get tucker like that today?

8/26/2005 09:22:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

Damn--wit rears it's ugly head. Being dimwitted I don't "do" wit.

Adolf, the Africans do something very similar to that fried bread, except it's made with maize flour. Delicious stuff.

8/26/2005 09:25:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Wit you talkn bout Keith?

8/26/2005 09:26:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

The thought of that is out there, Keith. My biggest introduction into the differences was when my 1.5 year old son played in a chiropractor's office that was under our office at the time. He was fascinated by the moving eyes on a baby doll. The older chiropractor told me that all the boys poke at the eyes and the girls don't, they hold the dolls instead. From such a young age that you can't put it down to socialisation. I think the fact that she thought it relevant to tell me something like that means that it was out there (this was in Australia) and probably still is out there as a thought form.

8/26/2005 09:26:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Wit is a bit tough for me as well. There, I've admited it. Drives my husband crazy when I just look blankly at him when he's said something witty. If it's wit where you can connect the dots I'm Ok, but where one of the dots is missing.... noooo, get the blank look.

8/26/2005 09:29:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

If you want bizarre equality stuff, read the latest post I put up just now. Un-effing-believable. The only department which is unequal is the equality department.

If males and females were identical, why would sex evolve? It is there for a reason, not so that half the population can subjugate the other. Sometimes PC is positively biblical (in the bad way) in its attitudes.

8/26/2005 09:30:00 pm  
Blogger Keith said...

Murray, you're the worst offender. Wit indicates a shallow mind, me father used to say. (but then, he may have been dimwitted too)

Lucyna, it surely is. A fascinating experiment is to give boys and girls a whole lot of cardboard cartons, some string and other odds and ends and watch what they do with them and how each group co-operates and organises what they do. The differences are startling.

8/26/2005 09:32:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Adolf, your bread story reminds me of my Aunt's donuts. They were incredible. Round with jam in the middle, deep fried and served with icing sugar. Sigh. I think the art of cooking is being lost.

8/26/2005 09:32:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Anyone else having problems with blogger.com? I can't reach many blogspot sites apart from our own.

8/26/2005 09:33:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Speaking of bread. It's lunchtime!

8/26/2005 09:34:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Could be worse, I could be the 7th offender.

And what the hell is up with having a wip round to pay the fines?????

8/26/2005 09:35:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Kieth and Murray. I'll have you know a highly intellectual gentleman (since deceased)from Yorkshire imparted to me the significant wisdom that when staying in a motel it pays during the night to pee sitting down because you don't have to bugger up your night vision to avoid piddling on the floor. Much easier getting back to sleep. Anyone remember the old Watties advertising slogan? Only one pee in three. Just thought I'd ask.

8/26/2005 09:35:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

This whole intelligent conversation sounds a little fishy to me. The intelligent conversation that got away then, Adolf?

Talking of fish, any-one seen my cod piece?

8/26/2005 09:36:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

No need to carp on about it.

8/26/2005 09:38:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

I vaguely remember that Watties slogan. I believe they have just signed up Dover Samuels. Delivery of a pea, fresh to your door.

8/26/2005 09:38:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Gee Murray, I swallowed that one hook, line and sinker.

Is this where "Whale Oil Beef Hooked" arrives with his thick Irish accent?

8/26/2005 09:39:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

You'll need some good lines to follow the current of this conversation or you'll just have wave as it goes by.

8/26/2005 09:43:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

I think I've figured out why the big push for "equality" for women. In a leftist society it is vitally important that you get women trained in the correct ways of thinking so they don't pass on what their mothers and grandmothers taught them. I'm reading a book on the Warsaw Uprsing and the moment, and this statement really clicked it into place for me (this is like finding all the pieces of a puzzle and I love puzzles, very satisfying):

The role of women [in the resistance] was crutial. It was the Polish wives, mothers, and grandmothers who guarded the traditions, provided the social infrastructure, comforted the activists, and told their menfolk where their duty lay.

To create coming socialist Utopia, socialists need to destroy all links to the past. Therefore women have to be kept busy and distracted.

8/26/2005 09:46:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Well folks, it's time I improved the intelligence quotient of the conversation. Beddie byes time. Hope next week's polls are better. AL, you asked if had I had any problems accessing other sites. No problems. Murray, yeah what a dumb thing to do. They might as well have shouted from the roof tops "The Bitch should Have owned Up" but of course the MSM have not said a word. Of course when The Don indicates he has manners that's a differnt story and requires banner headlines. I hope Captain Kirk kicks their quivering sphincters until their noses bleed.pntfls

8/26/2005 09:49:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

There is also the myth of the "socialist man", the idea that people could be made into the socialist ideal. But that requires stomping all over any genetic predispositions, like sex. One has to bear in mind that the whole PC thing began way back in the Russian revolutionary movement. It hasn't changed its goals much.

8/26/2005 09:49:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

I have the Pan/Ballantine illustrated History of WWII version right here.

The map ius disturbing if you know what the big blank area is.

8/26/2005 09:49:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Oh bugger, I just remembered the towels. Have to go put them in the dryer. Be right back.

8/26/2005 09:49:00 pm  
Blogger Adolf Fiinkensein said...

Just before I go, can someone tell me, what on earthis a tinfoil hat?

8/26/2005 09:56:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

A hat made from tinfoil to prevent the orbital mind control beams from the government reading thoughts.

A bench mark of extreme delusional paranois.

See: Keith Locke.

8/26/2005 09:59:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Tinfoil hat: A hat worn by Greenies to prevent their thoughts from being read (or minds controlled) by CIA equipment.

8/26/2005 10:00:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Yes, Socialist Man, the Russian Revolution and PC. Some more very interesting stuff in my book on how Moscow commanded all communist movements in all countries up until 1943. Not sure what happened later, though.

What is also really interesting is that Russia's nemesis, Poland, is hardly mentioned in the history books. I went and looked over the weekend for a good general history book for the kids - hardly any mention of the very powerful Polish Lithuanian state. Lots of Russian and British and French references though.

8/26/2005 10:00:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Damn Murray, you beat me to it. I'm like a fish out of water trying to type these new codes in.

8/26/2005 10:01:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

What's the big blank area, Murray?

8/26/2005 10:01:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Night Adolf.

(And now to type in dbasapvn. I really feel like I should say a lot more than Night Adolf having to type in a long code...)

8/26/2005 10:03:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Thats the Jewish Ghetto.

8/26/2005 10:04:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Is that in Warsaw, Murray?

8/26/2005 10:06:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Yes, the area of the Old Town between the river and Kolo that was flat and empty by the time of this rising.

The Jews had had a rising of their own.

They too were left to swing.

8/26/2005 10:09:00 pm  
Blogger Gooner said...

Hi all. Not staying long.

8/26/2005 10:13:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

It wasn't totally empty, Murray. By the time of the second rising a group of volunteers with a captured German tank rescued Jewish Poles from the death camp with it. Those Poles then immediately formed a Jewish battalion and fought with a vengence, only 3 survived. The entire city was dynamited by the Germans when the rising was over.

There weren't enough weapons - all weapon drops from the allies had diminished drastically after the Soviets swapped sides. Only 1 in 5 of the 2nd rising participants were armed.

8/26/2005 10:15:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Evening.

8/26/2005 10:16:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Keiths having computer troubles, looks like his given up.

8/26/2005 10:19:00 pm  
Blogger Gooner said...

Lucyna, this is fascinating. I envy your knowledge in this area.

8/26/2005 10:20:00 pm  
Blogger Lagwolf said...

Hello all. Just finished doing a Cerano de Bergerac for a friend and writing out a script for a date of his. Right now I am preparing for 5 minute stint on WLOB in Maine then have to SNN. Then off to raise a few beevies will a fellow blogger.

Will check back here in a bit.

What do you lot think of the fact that they Panorama that has caused all the stink amoung ROPMA has not found itself on the web yet?

8/26/2005 10:21:00 pm  
Blogger Gooner said...

Aye????????????

8/26/2005 10:26:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Thanks, Nick. This stuff is only available if you look for specific Polish history. The detail is not mentioned at all in general Anglo-centric books. It's making me wonder why.

I'm also torn between feeling like I'm talking about it too much and then feeling like there are really important historical clues that need to be known.

For instance, how many people know that Warsaw was 40% Jewish in population? That Jews had been Polish for 1000 years? That Poland had the largest Jewish population prior to WW2? That what the Germans did in WW2 with their ethic cleansing they'd already successfully done hundreds of years prior?

8/26/2005 10:26:00 pm  
Blogger Gooner said...

I did history at Uni but most of it is forgotten now. Thank goodness I didn't major in it or i could have ended up like Cullen!

8/26/2005 10:33:00 pm  
Blogger Murray said...

Compleltely off the top of my head I recall the Jewish population of Poland being 6 million prior to the German invasion and down to only a couple of hundred thousand at the end of the war.

It is quite propably one of the most succesful attempts at ethnic cleansing in history.

The film conspiracy gives you a good idea of how coldly the extermination was planned and then carried out with complete commitment.

8/26/2005 10:33:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

Thanks for the email earlier Murray - have replied.

By the time I type this it will be old news, but the key is "Jews living in Poland for 1000 years"

In a very real sense, the Jews were Poles and the Poles Jews. Hitler, and history insists on demarcation.

11 million died in the concentration camps - many Jews and many Poles. Poles were on the exterminate list of undesirable non-Aryan types too. The large Jewish-Polish population really made it all too convenient. The determination to level Warsaw and the people within was truly appalling.

8/26/2005 10:45:00 pm  
Blogger Gooner said...

Goodnight all. Busy weekend ahead of me so unlikely to be around this medium much. Ciao.

8/26/2005 10:46:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Murray, the Jewish population was about 3 million (10% of the population). 6 million is the number of Poles total killed (including Polish Jews). It seems that the effort was made to annihiate the Jewish population of Poland first (Nazis being supreme eugenicists), but that they got an equal number of non-Jewish Poles as they went. All of Poland was to be exterminated by the time they had finished - they seemed to really have it in for us.

Also, the first rising was in 1943 before the Allies got a foothold in Europe, hence no possibility of aid. The second rising started in August 1944, Allies already making their way through Italy. Remember Moneto Cassino taken in May? (My Grandfather and uncles were part of that). If the Soviets had allowed use of their airfields, the Amercians might have been able to help. As it was, a number Polish/British aircrews died trying to get weapons in before they were called off. Soviets sat on the banks of the Vistula for 5 months while the second rising came and went and while the German dynamited the city (over 3 months).

8/26/2005 10:46:00 pm  
Blogger Antarctic Lemur said...

Lucyna, is it true many Jews living in Germany, particularly Berlin, were refugees from Russia during the revolutionary years?

8/26/2005 10:53:00 pm  
Blogger ZenTiger said...

My brain left a wee while ago.

Night all.

8/26/2005 10:59:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Al, now that I don't know. I found something very odd the other day, though. A number of Jewish people moved to Moscow when the war broke out from Poland. It doesn't sound like there were alot, but I don't know what the numbers were.

8/26/2005 11:00:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

I can believe Jews would have fled to Berlin at the time. Marxism is a distinctly racist thing, the Leninist variety as well. I can see they'd have taken their chances in Berlin rather than stay in the Soviet Union, at least prior to the ascent of Hitler. But when you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, what are you going to do?

8/26/2005 11:07:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Is Marxism racist, Chefen? I always thought it was more class oriented.

8/26/2005 11:13:00 pm  
Blogger Lagwolf said...

Right now Greek & French Jews are either coming to the UK or heading to Israel.

8/26/2005 11:18:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

The way it is usually presented is as a class thing. But Marx himself was a raging anti-semite and hated Slavs and Engels was a German supremacist. Their less cited writings do not hide this. Lenin had to be careful when selling the whole deal to Russians, who Marx held in contempt. It's no coincidence that Mussolini and Hitler were avid readers of Engels and Marx, they just developed a more Germanic brand than Soviet Communism.

8/26/2005 11:19:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Lucyna, you might be interested in these

Engels "The pettifogging business-tricks of the Polish Jew, the representative in Europe of commerce in its lowest stage, those tricks that serve him so well in his own country, and are generally practiced there, he finds to be out of date and out of place when he comes to Hamburg or Berlin"

Marx "I now see clearly that he is descended, as the shape of his head and his hair clearly indicate, from the Negroes who were joined to the Jews at the time of the exodus from Egypt ( unless it was his mother or paternal grandmother who mated with a Negro). But this mixture of Judaism and Germanism with a negro substance as a base was bound to yield a most curious product. The importunity of the man also is negroid...One of the great discoveries of this Negro, which he confided to me, is that the Pelasgians are descended from the Semites. His main proof is that, according to the Book of Maccabees, the Jews sent messenger to Greece to ask for help and appealed to their tribal relationship..."

8/26/2005 11:28:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Woah.

The Underground History of American Education has some really interesting Eugenic links as well.

BTW, does anyone else have trouble with reading some of the fonts for the gobbledegook codes?

8/26/2005 11:35:00 pm  
Blogger JamesP said...

Yeah, I just had a bunch of codes rejected and had to post anon...

8/26/2005 11:37:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Haven't read that one Lucyna. But eugenics was very mainstream the world over, prior to WW2. It was well supported by many socialists and reached its inevitable conclusion in the death camps.

8/26/2005 11:47:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

They could just put in words, that way those of us who aren't automated programs could work out what they were faster. There's a particular font where I have trouble distinguishing whether the letter is a "v" or a "u". Not to mention those where I have no idea what I typed in wrong.

On the other stuff, my mind is being compressed - it's like weight of it is getting too much. I need to withdraw. Probably why I'm going through my book so slowly, it's heavy stuff.

So, I'm going to bed now. See ya all later, so to speak!

8/26/2005 11:50:00 pm  
Blogger Chefen said...

Afternoon all, see you later.

8/26/2005 11:52:00 pm  
Blogger Lucyna said...

Yeah, that's what the book said Chefen. The info's out there if anyone looks for it. It was also tied into education, lots of freaking out in America about all the immigrants from Europe, hence schooling created specifically to control them.

Ok, now I'm definately going.

8/26/2005 11:52:00 pm  
Blogger Lagwolf said...

If you havent I would urgue all to read the transcript of the Panorama program on the MAB.

8/27/2005 12:45:00 am  

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